تحریم ایران توسط سورس فورج

دیشب وقتی می‌خواستم libinklevel رو دانلود کنم، متوجه شدم که سورس فرج ایران رو نحریم کرده... تصمیم گرفتم برم به کانال گنو در آی‌آرسی و در این مورد باهاشون صحبت کنم چون به نظرم میرسید که این موضوع با آزادی شماره ۲ از آزادی‌های چهارگانه که گنو در مورد نرم‌افزارهای آزاد بیان می‌کنه تضاد داره... بنا بر این آزادی‌ها هرکسی میتونه نرم‌افزار آزاد رو برای هر منظوری استفاده کنه و اون رو منتشر کنه. اینجا میتونید این چهار آزادی رو ببینید. توی کانال پرسیدم که آیا سورس فورج حق تحریم کردن یه گروه از کاربرها رو داره؟ این کار باعث از بین رفتن آزادی نرم‌افزار میشه. mwk گفت که سورس فورج یک شرکت خصوصیه و اجازه داره هرکسی رو که مناسب می‌بینه بن کنه و هیچ کس مجبور نیست به خاظر اینکه نرم‌افزار آزادی رو داره به فرد دیگه‌ای نسخه ای از اون رو بده. در حقیقت هر کس حق داره که انتخاب کنه به چه کسی نرم‌افزارش رو میده، ولی اگر نرم افزار رو به کسی داد ، نفر دوم کاملا آزاده که اونو در اختیار هر کسیکه دوست داشت قرار بده. به هرحال من یکی قانع شدم که این موضوع با GPL مشکلی نداره و ما همچنان باید بسوزیم و بسازیم! ‌ولی یکی از افراد اونجا داغ کرده بود و قانع نمی‌شد! بلاخره یکم فحش رد و بدل شد و یک نفر بن شد تا اینکه بحث رو تموم کردن. متن صحبت های آی‌آرسی (پیشنهاد میکنم که بخونیدش! بحث حتی به نژادپرستی هم میرسه!):

[00:25] --> You have joined the channel #gnu (n=farhad@unaffiliated/farhad-hf/x-1564675).
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[00:36] [farhad_hf] Hi, I want to know if everyone from anywhere on the planet is free to use / download GPL softwares.
[00:36] [farhad_hf] can anyone make it clear for me?
[00:38] [dougmencken] farhad_hf, hmm.. do you know about four Essential Freedoms?
[00:38] [farhad_hf] sourceforge has banned us , users from Iran , because of sanctions, is it right ? do they have the right to do this?
[00:38] [farhad_hf] if memory serves me right , everyone is free to use and change a gpl software for any porpuse
[00:38] [dougmencken] any user from any country believing in any god(s) is Free
[00:39] [mwk] ... sourceforge did what?
[00:40] [dougmencken] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
[00:40] [mwk] farhad_hf: sourceforge is a privately owned company, they have the right to ban anyone as they see fit...
[00:40] [farhad_hf] this is what sourceforge tells me when i try to download something : If you are not from one of the countries banned from accessing this site, please submit us a Support Request including your IP address (xx.xx.xx.xx) and country of origin.
[00:40] [mwk] and nobody is forced to give you copies of Free software just because they own it
[00:40] [dougmencken] but if they banned an entire country by whatever reason...
[00:41] [mwk] but yes, it's... weird
[00:41] [mwk] farhad_hf: what else does it say?
[00:41] [farhad_hf] mwk: can you load this page ? http://sourceforge.net/t7.php
[00:41] [farhad_hf] 403 Error – Forbidden
[00:42] [mwk] yes
[00:42] [farhad_hf] Your request is being denied as it appears to be coming from a location banned by our Terms of Use.
[00:42] [dougmencken] farhad_hf, the same: 403
[00:42] [mwk] ugh.
[00:42] [farhad_hf] hmm....
[00:42] [dougmencken] but I'm not from Iran ;)
[00:42] [mwk] yes, and it gives link to ToS
[00:42] [mwk] which basically says that if you're from Iran, you're out of luck.
[00:43] [mwk] is that really mandated by some US law? it's just obnoxious...
[00:43] [dougmencken] well, I have my own project hosted on sf.net
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[00:43] [mwk] farhad_hf: what is it that you're trying to download? if it's free software, I'm happy to mirror it for you (and I'm not from US, nor from any of their banned countries.)
[00:43] [dougmencken] it works okay, as well as sf's homepage
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[00:45] [farhad_hf] mwk: thanks. I was trying to download libinklevel, I found a mirror and downloaded it, but it's wierd anyway, yaourt in archlinux downloads almost everything from sourceforge and compiles the sources... I'm not able to use that anymore
[00:45] [dougmencken] btw, if they don't let you to download software, they are violating Freedom 2
[00:46] [mwk] dougmencken: no, sf isn't violating any freedom.
[00:46] [farhad_hf] I can set proxies for that , but then my downloading speed will decrese
[00:46] [mwk] ,,free
[00:46] [fsbot] I think free is Free as in Freedom not free as in price http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
[00:46] [mwk] ,,four freedoms
[00:46] [fsbot] try: ErcFmFour HowToArchivePagesArchiveTwoThousandFourAugust ruleoffour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_(Norman_Rockwell)
[00:46] [mwk] !@#$%^&
[00:46] [mwk] !free
[00:46] [dougmencken] ,,linux
[00:46] [fsbot] hmm, linux is (0) the kernel of the GNU/Linux operating system
[00:46] [fsbot] (1) http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html,
[00:46] [fsbot] (2) A library that Emacs uses to communicate with computer hardware. -- Erwin,
[00:46] [fsbot] (3) http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
[00:46] [dougmencken] wow
[00:46] [mwk] # The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
[00:47] [mwk] this means that everyone is free to make copies of software their own
[00:47] [mwk] if sf.net wishes not to exercise this freedom to people from certain countries, it's within their rights
[00:48] [sweetandy] that's an interesting point
[00:48] [dougmencken] mwk, well, so freedoms can apply only to certain countries then?
[00:48] [mwk] farhad_hf: in other words, everyone is allowed to download GPL packages, as long as you find a distributor willing to provide them
[00:48] [mwk] farhad_hf: but once you get it, you're free to do everything in it
[00:48] [mwk] dougmencken: no, that's all irrelevant to freedoms.
[00:48] [sweetandy] I have the right to keep my software from my neighbors if I so chose.
[00:48] [dougmencken] okay, but let's turn to GPL
[00:48] [mwk] right.
[00:49] [dougmencken] is that t7 under GPL?
[00:49] [mwk] dougmencken: nothing in GPL says that you have to provide the source to anyone who asks
[00:49] [dougmencken] mwk, really?
[00:49] [mwk] exept in the very specific situation when you previously distributed binaries
[00:50] [dougmencken] hmm, so no bins - no sources, you are banned, goodbye
[00:50] [mwk] together with that written offer
[00:50] [mwk] yes, everyone has right to distribute GPL software they have, to whoever they choose
[00:50] [mwk] as well as right to decline distrubution to anyone
[00:50] [CcSsNET] do u work at gnu?
[00:50] [mwk] if I have a copy of glibc, and I decide to allow sweetandy to download it, but not to allow you, that's ok.
[00:51] [mwk] and of course sweetandy then has full rights to send a copy to you, in turn
[00:51] [dougmencken] well, is on this planet any license that is really "Free" then?
[00:51] [mwk] what's not "free" about that?
[00:52] [dougmencken] mwk, some guy (a lord) decides can you get a software or not
[00:53] [mwk] some guy decides if he's personally willing to go through the trouble of sending you the software
[00:53] [mwk] you still can get the software from other sources who already have it and are willing to share...
[00:54] [dougmencken] anyway it's not free then
[00:54] [AimHere] The difference between Lords is that Lords owned all the land, and you had to obey them in order to be allowed to live on it.
[00:54] [AimHere] Programmers don't own the concept of software. If you want software X, you can write it yourself.
[00:54] [farhad_hf] but it doesn't make sense when I cant use them that way , does it mwk ?
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[00:55] [farhad_hf] how can i install 100 packages by hand? downloading them from here and there?
[00:55] [AimHere] Software without certain restrictions is not the same thing as 'people will do work for you for free'
[00:55] [mwk] well, it's not ideal, but the alternative isn't pretty either
[00:55] [Necrosporus] farhad_hf, you can use proxies
[00:55] [dougmencken] yes, he can use some proxy; but it isn't the problem
[00:56] [farhad_hf] Necrosporus: our internet speed is slow, If i do that , i'd take a life time to download one gigabyte of packages :P
[00:56] [mwk] you cannot require everyone who wants some piece of software to always send it
[00:56] [mwk] s/wants/has/
[00:56] [dougmencken] mwk, also you can't ban the whole country/the whole planet
[00:56] [farhad_hf] mwk: can you load this page ? http://sourceforge.net/t7.php // 403 but I'm not from Iran
[00:57] [AimHere] I ban the planet!
[00:57] [AimHere] Earth is now barred.
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[00:57] [dougmencken] AimHere, yep, I have *free* software, but I banned the planet Earth to get it
[00:57] [dougmencken] sounds cool, isn;t it?
[00:57] [AimHere] I don't understand what you mean by 'banning the whole country/planet'
[00:58] [farhad_hf] Necrosporus: when i try to download something, download link redirects to this page , i gave you the redirected address
[00:58] [mwk] dougmencken: software that you've written and don't ever give anyeone else counts as free too.
[00:59] [AimHere] Software you give to one other person, who doesn't want to give it away, but can if she wants to, is free
[00:59] [dougmencken] mwk, even if I wrote inside "(c) YEAR only my, you can't modify, you can't even look inside"
[00:59] [mwk] dougmencken: sure.
[00:59] [AimHere] You're not bound by copyright restrictions on your own copyrights
[00:59] [dougmencken] good freedom then it is
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[00:59] [mwk] it's fully free, since there's noone that's restricted by it
[00:59] [AimHere] You can't sue yourself for breach of copyright, that's absurd
[01:00] [mwk] you can still use it in any way you want
[01:00] [mwk] and other people's rights don't matter, since other people don't have that piece of software anyway
[01:00] [dougmencken] farhad_hf, my suggestion: find the developers (via mail, via irc, via anything) and tell them: you are Lords
[01:01] [mwk] the concept of free software was about combatting people who were distributing the software, but preventing their recipents from doing stuff with it
[01:01] [mwk] not about forcing everyone to make copies available to whoever walks by their webpage
[01:02] [AimHere] Unless you're Affero, of course
[01:02] [Necrosporus] how can i install 100 packages by hand? downloading them from here and there? // you can use /etc/host if you'll find a mirror
[01:02] [dougmencken] mwk, so are you happy with "free" software "avaliable only if you're white" or something?
[01:02] [mwk] dougmencken: there'll eventually be a white that's willing to share with blacks
[01:03] [AimHere] Software that's restricted that way is bad
[01:03] [AimHere] and unfree
[01:03] [dougmencken] yes it is
[01:03] [mwk] well, if it's under GPL, it's not really unavailable to blacks
[01:03] [arashOio__] farhad_hf, man miram bekhabam :D
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[01:03] [AimHere] Free software that only happens to be handed out to white people or frenchmen or Jehovah's witnesses is still free
[01:04] [mwk] it's just a distributor who happens not to like blacks
[01:04] [mwk] if he distributes to someone who doesn't happen to not like blacks, problem solved
[01:04] [AimHere] He is a racist asshole, but free software can't solve all the world's problems, only some of them
[01:04] [mwk] for any target group large enough, someone will be happy to share
[01:05] * dougmencken is tired now
[01:05] [mwk] and for any target group small enough, well, you can't really regulate what a small circle of people does among its own
[01:05] [Necrosporus] Does GNU Savannah restrict connections from Iran?
[01:06] [AimHere] I'd reckon it's more likely that Iran restricts connections to GNU Savannah
[01:06] [mwk] so yeah, sf.net restrictions aren't good, but they're not preventing the software from being free
[01:06] [mwk] AimHere: nope, it's sf.net
[01:06] [mwk] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use#ProhibitedP...
[01:06] [Necrosporus] There are some other free software sites, google code, i.e.
[01:07] [mwk] and I see no reason why it would be prohibited by some laws
[01:07] [CcSsNET] theres many
[01:07] [mwk] hell, they even refer to laws that could mandate such restrictions
[01:07] [AimHere] Presumably this is still that Phil ZImmerman shit
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[01:07] [CcSsNET] what about freshmeat
[01:08] [mwk] so, as for the original question that farhad_hf asked, yes, sf.net has a right to do what it's doing.
[01:08] [CcSsNET] i wish it was as active as sf.net though
[01:08] [CcSsNET] mwk who whould assume otherwise? a con artist?
[01:09] [farhad_hf] Necrosporus: google has baned us too :D
[01:09] [farhad_hf] we can't access google code projects
[01:09] [dougmencken] I just reported that incident with sf.net to a lot of groups which calling them "supporting free software"
[01:09] [Necrosporus] Banned in google is some meme
[01:10] [CcSsNET] define incident
[01:11] [dougmencken] CcSsNET, they "don't want" to give software if you're not "white"
[01:11] [AimHere] Can't Iranians get sourceforge code from a non-US mirror site?
[01:12] [CcSsNET] difine they
[01:12] [CcSsNET] define*
[01:12] [dougmencken] CcSsNET, sourceforge.net
[01:12] [dougmencken] free software is sooooo free; only white people can use it
[01:12] [CcSsNET] are u making this up? i bet so. stop trolling
[01:13] [farhad_hf] CcSsNET: I cant download from this mirror : garr.it (Rome, Italy, IT)
[01:13] [dougmencken] I'm not "trolling"; I'm just VERY disappointed
[01:13] [AimHere] He's making that up. Sourceforge, whether through choice or because of legal restrictions, won't give software to countries the US government really dislikes.
[01:14] [AimHere] By countries, I mean 'people in countries'
[01:14] [CcSsNET] well find a site that is not hosted in the usa
[01:14] [CcSsNET] not to hard
[01:14] [dougmencken] AimHere, what US government do with free software at all?
[01:15] [CcSsNET] and get the authors to do a dual release
[01:15] [CcSsNET] 2 sites
[01:15] [mattl] dougmencken: the US navy uses GNU Ada.
[01:15] [mwk] CcSsNET: not trivial
[01:15] [dougmencken] CcSsNET, you just said in private chat you're bot
[01:15] [mattl] what's CCSSNet?
[01:15] [mattl] oh it's a person. my bad.
[01:15] [AimHere] It's not 'free software' is 'anything that can be exported'
[01:15] [mwk] well, maybe ok for tarball released
[01:15] [AimHere] *it's
[01:15] [CcSsNET] dough i said u where now shut the fuck up and leave me alone
[01:15] [mwk] but if you have CVS repo on sf, it's non-trivial to duplicate
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[01:16] [CcSsNET] doughmencken^
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[01:16] [farhad_hf] CcSsNET: i tried CDNetworks (Seoul, Korea, Republic of, KR) too, again t7 :P it seems that sourceforge doesn't let me to use download links at all, no matter where they are hosted
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[01:18] [mattl] dougmencken: sorry about ccssnet. i've banned him/her.
[01:19] [farhad_hf] ok, thanks everyone, at least now I know it's their right to ban us! :D I'll try to make a mirror on our university servers, and publish that among Iranian users..
[01:19] [dougmencken] mattl, good work :) he seems inadequate
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[01:20] [mwk] farhad_hf: good luck with the mirror, just don't whip up a generic open proxy
[01:20] * farhad_hf and sorry for my bad English :)
[01:20] [dougmencken] farhad_hf, by the way, what is that f7?
[01:21] [mattl] farhad_hf: i don't believe ftp.gnu.org blocks people, and mirrors are plentiful.
[01:21] [mwk] dougmencken: that page that he posted address too
[01:21] [mwk] the 403 one, saying you're from one of banned countries
[01:21] [mwk] http://sourceforge.net/t7.php
[01:21] [mwk] mattl: any idea about that legislation that sf.net is referring to?
[01:22] [dougmencken] well, I've never heard about that "t7"; googling "t7 sourceforge" leaves no relevant results
[01:23] [mattl] You represent you are not a person on a list barring you from receiving services under U.S. laws or other applicable jurisdiction, including without limitations, the Denied Persons List and the Entity List, and other lists issued by the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security, detailed at http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/ListsToCheck.htm (or successor sites thereto). Users residing in countries on the United States Office of
[01:23] [farhad_hf] mattl: I haven't tried ftp.gnu.org ,
[01:23] [mwk] is it a valid reason to ban people from downloading stuff?
[01:23] [dougmencken] what is that "f7"? any descriptions?
[01:24] [dougmencken] mwk, it is not, absolutely; but maybe that "f7.php" page has been made just to "punish" anyone?
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[01:24] [mattl] mwk: i think it's related to export control.
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[01:25] [AimHere] Hmmm. Osama Bin Laden is barred from using sourceforge
[01:25] [farhad_hf] btw, these sanctions does not affect the regime at all, they're just hurting people...
[01:26] [AimHere] You know, someone reading through sourceforge logs could find out when the 403 error is triggered for Osama, and jump in and track his IP and arrest him
[01:27] [mwk] ... and what would he be searching for on sf.net that would make you identify him? nuke firmware?
[01:27] [AimHere] Agreed, farhad_hf, but some politicians are scared that the Iranian government will download a copy of gpg and then the NSA won't be able to read Khameni's emails no more
[01:27] [farhad_hf] AimHere: haha :))
[01:27] [AimHere] Probably a gui skin for pidgin or something
[01:28] [mwk] mattl: wasn't that crypto export thing gone already?
[01:28] [mwk] and wouldn't that affect gnu.org as well?
[01:28] [mattl] mwk: don't ask me, i just work here ;)
[01:28] [mattl] johnsu01 would be the person to ask
[01:28] [mwk] heh ok.
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[01:30] [farhad_hf] good night